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Is Hydrogen power a potential power for F1? - Combustion? Fuel Cells? 

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Megtekintés 193 E
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Honda are leaving F1 to pursue emission free tech. So what IS the future of Formula 1 power? Batteries are one possible future... but what about Hydrogen? And can we still have combustion engines?
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2020.okt.10.

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IYBJS 530
IYBJS 530 6 napja
With hydrogen power Nikki Lauda’s Crash would’ve taken half the forest with him
bot
bot 8 napja
I'm about to rant here so bear with me. How is the issue 20 odd cars going around tracks 23 times a year? How much of an issue would that be? Instead of focusing all of this energy and hours of work on trying to find new innovative ways to make 20 cars emission-less, put that work into the real issue, at least regarding the massive industry that is F1. How about the planes and ships that move this equipment around the world? How about the millions of cars that still run on petrol? Or the giga-factories that pump out more carbon than ever? Once you fix that, F1 won't even be looked at twice. If the fate of car enthusiasts is to eventually drive a mobile battery pack that squeals, at least give us the pleasure of hearing some good ol' F1 cars rip around some tracks. On a side note, producing electric cars could be just as polluting if not more as driving standard combustion diesel cars, but we're not ready to have that conversation yet... [TLDR] Fix more polluting issues rather than worrying about 20 cars driving around tracks once in a blue moon.
Dr Bismil
Dr Bismil 8 napja
Green hydrogen --> Fuel Cells. THE END
Fessler Ivan
Fessler Ivan 9 napja
I’m so tired with all of these efficiency considerations in F1. Driving in circle 60 times in a row is not efficient in the first place. It’s about fun, not efficiency.
Sadalsuud
Sadalsuud Napja
These guys are so obsessed with efficiency that they forget others important things
Arul mccarthy
Arul mccarthy 10 napja
Wait water is also a green house gas, how is water being released makes this any better in terms of emission?
Lightning Blaze
Lightning Blaze 12 napja
I mean, if we *did* make a race (like Formula H like top comment suggests :P), it might do wonders for hydrogen power overall if it takes off. I mean, imagine the companies that race in it dumping *all* that research money into hydrogen power, and taking how to use it and make it more efficient, and then those companies making hydrogen powered standard cars based on how they found how to turn the hydrogen into power more effectively.
Donald Saunders
Donald Saunders 13 napja
Would a hydrogen powered Gas Turbine work in an F1 car??
Jack Druyon
Jack Druyon 13 napja
I hate how’s he’s acting like the only reason people like hydrogen combustion is because it’s “loud” and “traditional”
young e
young e 14 napja
surely driving round with a tank of compressed hydrogen is extremely dangerous
Jonathon Deeds
Jonathon Deeds 16 napja
First of all F1 engines are up to 50% efficient on petrol running on hydrogen increases thermal efficiency by a small factor. It is very easy to solve the NOX issue with Hydrogen combudtion engines using ceramic Nitrogen/Oxygen seperator filters these concentrate oxygen so act as a solid state supercharger so increasing power and allows high hydrogen aiir ratios without increasing NOX.
Riccardo Orlando
HYDROLOX FUELLED ROCKET CARS
ZPERO
ZPERO 20 napja
If the decision was up to me, I'd change the rules to rotatory engines, stop pretending F1 is Eco-friendly, and also get rid of all the boring tracks on the calendar and replace them with actually good tracks.
Skeptical Caveman
Adding supercapacitors to race cars would make it possible to regen power from braking much more efficiently. They would only store maybe 10 sec boost of acceleration but in combination with the energy from the battery or hydrogen it will be enough until the next time the car have to slow down.
Matt Bolt
Matt Bolt 21 napja
Batteries suck ass for motorsport. They will make the cars heavy if they want to run a full race distance. And they sound terrible.
Ege O.
Ege O. 21 napja
I absolutely hate Formula E but it seems like the course is going to full vegan engines for the better of the world at least, F1 always spearheads vehicle technologies.
Muckman
Muckman 21 napja
Another miss informed video The future is not Hydrogen it self but Hydrogen and Co2 capture. Carbon neutral fuels are F1 and all racing fuels for the future.
Chris A
Chris A 22 napja
No, the current save the whales- p.u. is already so costly nobody dare mess with it . Keep it simple stoopids.🤪🏁
Ethan Martinussen
I did hydrogen cars for a science project
Ukulele Productions
Wow, what a complex problem. Seems to me, like in a few years, there is no way around hydrogen fuel, cause if we manage to fix the issues we have now, its almos perfect. Who needs loud cars, if every other aspect gets improoved?
Alexander Blasi
Alexander Blasi 25 napja
At first I'd like to thank you for bringing it up. For mobile applications we'll probably stay with liquified or compressed Hydrogen because chemical solutions are heavy and take to long to release the Hydrogen. If embedded into the Monocoque it shouldn't be more dangerous than current Petrols. So I don't think that Storage and Transport is a "big" Problem. About the costs either every team or the FIA could get a electrolyser and some tank units set up in shipping containers big enough to produce enough Hydrogen for the Raceweekend (maybe 2 so the machines could be set up at 2 Locations at a time), that way you'd only need electric power and water to produce the fuel for the race. So the costs could be shared by all teams. But I guess F1 is to "short range" 300km to 400 km a race to make Hydrogen - Fuelcells (HFC) worth it. I think Formula E could expand from city-circuits to race-tracks, because batteries will get better and better. My guess is the "HFC" will first get to race at 24h races, if i m not mistaken 2024 will be the first year with a HFC category at LeMans.
Gerard Montgomery
There's also the fact that hydrogen not safely stored in a fuel cell has a bad tendancy to go bang.
build Motosykletist
groan
Surprise toy City
And what if future race cars still use conbustion engines using synthetic oil ?
coenfuse
coenfuse 27 napja
6:57 I'm stupid but curious. Doesn't Hydrogen has very high calorific (if not the higest) value out of available fuels? Wouldn't that be enough to compensate the amount of fuel we can get into the cylinder?
Mihir Shah
Mihir Shah 27 napja
Formula N for Nuclear
Derek Lush
Derek Lush 28 napja
Biofuel powered v10?
Rico Loco
Rico Loco Hónapja
problem NOx can be solved by using instead of air liquid oxygene in combination with hydrogen , the cylinders can be smaller and will have much more power... a little risky, but hey , this is F1..
Roland Lawrence
Roland Lawrence Hónapja
formula one will eventually morph into mario cart with power ups where you can get an EV boost and bumper car like protection. formula H sounds like an opioid documentary.
George Holt
George Holt Hónapja
apart from the fact that water vapor is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2
1 wordhere 1wordthere
This has got to be good ! Trolls are everywhere. Hydrogen fuel from yesteryear today !
Carmai7
Carmai7 Hónapja
I propose the use of nuclear power units! The thought of a nuclear disaster in the track will force drivers to never crash their cars, hence, improving their driving/survival skills !!!!
Carmai7
Carmai7 Hónapja
So, what you are trying to say is that either way we are going electric!
Left Foot Brake
Left Foot Brake Hónapja
So..... straight away... the fuel is not "ignited" but it is oxidised under heat. That's right, the ignition button is poorly named.
Gameboy Terrorysta
I really want hydrogen cell engines to become more popular. For the end user it combines advantages of combustion and electric powerplant. Instant throttle reaction and the most linear power delivery possible BUT without heavy batteries, with option to refuel quickly. The only downside for hydrogen cell is transporting it as it requires building new facilities and huge investment in logistics. BUT with lower weight, less environmental damage, lack of degradation, option to refuel it looks lime THE best solution fornfuture road cars and endurance race cars.
umrete
umrete Hónapja
damn hippies
Federico Cahis
Federico Cahis Hónapja
I have never been lucky enough to go to an F1 race, but certainly CART with its loud engines and intoxicating aroma of methanol. I’ve also been to Formula E, and though it seems so quiet and so foreign so far in Motorsport, it is no doubt the current future of the automobile industry and how suppliers see its market relevance. It is also quite exciting in its own way. It requires an open mind regarding speed and racing. It’s not for all. Therefore, if F1 can make a business case to manufacturers that hydrogen power can be advantageous and supported by the infrastructure needed to process its production as efficiently as possible, then (and only then) can it be a game changer and entice manufacturers. I’m not convinced yet that hydrogen power will win over manufacturers, consumers and current technology. And currently, any racing series needs to be reactive to that. Until these issues are resolved, I can’t expect things to move forward. Hydrogen power has been tested (often by transit authorities), while slowly and quietly being scrapped. I hope any and all technology that can advance Autosport and the automobile direction in the future can be a success.
Mr Dandelion
Mr Dandelion Hónapja
as long as it goes *VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM* I dont care
R Sailor
R Sailor Hónapja
Compressed hydrogen is not stored at 300 atm in fuel cell cars. It is stored at 700 atm, 700 bar, 70 MegaPascals. The refueling standard established around the world is known as H70. The older standard was H35 for buses at 350 atm. Fueling stations in California are no longer required to carry H35, it is becoming obsolete. Also the efficiency issue has no bearing on "motor sports" at all. The 3 minute refueling time of a hydrogen family sedan could easily be shrunk to seconds in a racing pit. m.cafcp.org cafcp.org
Mikołaj Rotnicki
8:02 what is petrol fuel combustion efficiency in comparison to hydrogen combustion and power cell? It has not been mentioned
Riccardo Orlando
I believe around 30%
odhran ob
odhran ob Hónapja
mix the petrol and hydrogen
Bala karthikeya Nandula
Why not use some sound system to make the electric car of formula E to make it sound like a F1 car... 🤔
bbbl67
bbbl67 Hónapja
Why not look into alternative fuel cells like alcohol or gasoline or diesel fuel cells?
Vasudev Dehariya
how is this dude not have A million subscribers.
TheOneWhoMightBe
Chemically store it: turn it into Ammonia, burn that. Storage is a lot simpler, leaks are astoundingly obvious.
Insert Name
Insert Name Hónapja
Yeah... but the noise
Daniel Mistrz
Daniel Mistrz Hónapja
@Chain Bear hydrogen, hydrogen.... why F1 engines can't use ethanol? better performance, less carbon deposit than petrol, etc, etc...
Trent Bruch
Trent Bruch Hónapja
Hydrogen Rotary Engines, imagine Mazda in F1
Trent Bruch
Trent Bruch Hónapja
I think that hydrogen would be the best solution, we would get to keep the sound because if it goes electric then it would just be another Formula E
Jeremy Siegel
Jeremy Siegel Hónapja
Nuclear, solar and hydroelectric energy used for electrolysis could be a very interesting system for generating hydrogen. Then we need some sort of chemical storage that can pack high amounts of hydrogen into dense arrangements for storage at atmospheric pressures, perhaps in a way that could be used directly in engines. Hydrocarbons already do this but there are significant downsides.. it'd be interesting to see if there could be some inert fluid that could hold large amounts of hydrogen in solution, with cars containing a reservoir for holding spent fluid or something along those lines.
TheEwanMC
TheEwanMC Hónapja
I read somewhere a Wankel rotary engine design is particularly suited to burning hydrogen. In petrol form the rotary engine has many drawbacks, but when one switches to the hydrogen fuel, this drawback turns into a great combination. In fact Mazda built a prototype Mazda RX-8 hydrogen rotary car some years ago.
Dark Judge
Dark Judge Hónapja
Internal combustion engines fueled by fossile fuels will be the dominant energy delivery system for transport and F1 cars for at least 50 more years. The insane economy destroying and poverty creating nonesense of electric cars powered by grossly uneconomic renewables will implode sooner rather than later after we destroyed 25% of the economy on this covid bullshit and cant afford the climate alarmist virtue signalling clusterfuck.
Toni !
Toni ! Hónapja
Nuclear?
Keita
Keita Hónapja
Why do you care about emissions in a f1 car?
TechnoGuy11
TechnoGuy11 Hónapja
I'll never be into racing that sounds like RC cars going around a track.
DuncaR
DuncaR Hónapja
jesus christ! headphone users volume warning at 5:50... my ears!
Ahmedo the Pro
Ahmedo the Pro Hónapja
you could us liquid water instead of liquid hydrogen or gas hydrogen
Jamie Coats
Jamie Coats Hónapja
No, why, because an engine that burns fuels is so complicated compared to that of an electric. Why would manufactures invest in this..?
Sam Pickett
Sam Pickett Hónapja
Look out for this its coming soon. Get ready its going to be big. Zero Emissions H2 Racing. hyraze-league.com/home-en/
DeathInTheSnow
DeathInTheSnow Hónapja
Clearly the issue with inefficiency is in the friction caused by tyres being in contact with the road. If we could just hurry up and develop an antigravity racing league we could wipe out this problem easily, possibly as early as 2048.
gioyu comi
gioyu comi Hónapja
You can just swap the fuel cells out instead of refilling them.
VOVA
VOVA Hónapja
Amaizing video!! I honestly think they should go back to V8 or V12. BUT, they should offset carbon footprint by planting trees. Planting enough trees will not only offset the race weekend carbon release. But will also help the environment through the year. A win win, and Let racing be racing!!!!
Ernest Imken
Ernest Imken Hónapja
Liquid hydrogen is dangerous to handle. For that reason alone it cannot be used in auto racing of any kind. Witness the catastrophic explosions when space vehicles have fuel accidents.
Grannie Annie
Grannie Annie Hónapja
Alternative fuels have to continue to be developed because unlike Europe and the UK there are a lot of countries that either don't have a stable electrical grid or enough charging stations or both. I guess I come to this as an Australian where there still working on having enough charging stations for a car to go from Brisbane to Melbourne, let alone trucks to transport food and goods. And planes to travel and shipping etc. So whilst Formula 1 could eventually race electric cars that's not what is causing most of their greenhouse emissions. Not sure there is a useful point in any of my ramble sorry.
gioyu comi
gioyu comi Hónapja
You can just swap the fuel cells out instead of refilling them.
Keisuke Takahasi
just use the synthetic fuels they re developing. no co2. all this hydrogen/electric bs is really annoying
Mateusz Cielas
Mateusz Cielas Hónapja
hydrogen has much more energy relased
alex h
alex h Hónapja
Can you make a video on biofuel please
abbsnn cose
abbsnn cose Hónapja
yes but will it tow a boat :D
sledger2003
sledger2003 Hónapja
Chain Bear .. how fuel efficient is the current F1 combustion engine ? [l/100] ?
Tony Bowker
Tony Bowker Hónapja
Excellent explanation😊
Guilherme Liz
Guilherme Liz Hónapja
Also one thing worth saying about fuel cells is that they need many rare mineral that also need mining. Plus they are built in very scattered way that makes the recycling of these fuel cells very difficult.
abbsnn cose
abbsnn cose Hónapja
engines, they were true engines not like this V6 turbo hybrid. Not every one can afford these engines
Michal Pavlov
Michal Pavlov Hónapja
Just use electricity and put a huge speaker into every car
Bay Sea
Bay Sea Hónapja
Box Box Kimi the car is out of Hydrogen..
aola wili
aola wili Hónapja
2:56 Small correction: "So this's how you'd expect HYDROGEN road cars to be tuned" HYDROGEN not NITROGEN, that would be Fast and Furious lol
eravelo
eravelo Hónapja
This is nonsense. All this tech may be good for the car companies, not for racing, or even the planet.
Victory First
Victory First Hónapja
One point you missed about hydrocarbon fuels is that they can be heated and gasified to deliver really clean combustion. The reason this is not happening is it would make the gas mileage increases that the producers of fossil fuels view as a loss of demand because of the efficiency factor. Plain and simple to understand. VF
FlakeSE
FlakeSE Hónapja
Formula E is the future.
aola wili
aola wili Hónapja
can run it 2 stroke. Has the potential for thousands of HP.
Bill Cranston
Bill Cranston Hónapja
Meanwhile we transport everything via diesel trucks, jet planes and transport ships. All highly polluting. Making motorsports "green" is a futile exercise - we have FE so let's leave it to be the "environmentally friendly" motorsport. Let's have F1 embrace small turbocharged ICE engines and reduce the ridiculous costs associated with racing with hybrid powertrains. Can also make some gains, however minor, towards ICE efficiency since they are still the predominant power source for cars over the next 20 years. In that time F1 can buy out FE and maintain its position at the top of the food chain, presumably.
David S
David S Hónapja
You can just swap the fuel cells out instead of refilling them.
Bryan Slomp
Bryan Slomp Hónapja
okay but what about ammonia as a fuel ?
Dharshan Jayarajah
Please put a video of Rally .
seiom jvony
seiom jvony Hónapja
years Fantastic video explaning everything!
Colin Brown
Colin Brown Hónapja
I think that F1 should go 1.5 ltr V12 2 stroke engines running on ethanol with similar electrical assistance as now. .. Fans get screaming engines, F1 gets a green energy solution its a win win...
frogandspanner
frogandspanner Hónapja
It's an INTERNAL combustion engine, NOT a "Combustion engine".
Yahya Rubar
Yahya Rubar Hónapja
Man F1 was a simple racing competition and use to entertain us. These electronic devices are ruining the sport, and these bio fuel shit. Let’s use the old V8,V12 and V10 engines, they were true engines not like this V6 turbo hybrid. Not every one can afford these engines
seiom jvony
seiom jvony Hónapja
we have been working with batteries and electricity for a very long on a large scale. Hydrogen is kinda new to us. I think F1 can put their massive RnD into it to make it even be
Ama Eshiet
Ama Eshiet Hónapja
The future of f1 is turbo diesel
miko foin
miko foin Hónapja
good. pls F1
PJ Harwood
PJ Harwood Hónapja
The only thing I wish for in future F1 engines is that they sound like they did in the V10 era; don't care what fuel they use, whether its electic or combustion, just want it to sound good. pls F1
Jurgen Roman
Jurgen Roman Hónapja
@miko foin Fun fact: electricity isn't free. Also the production costs of electrolysers is still quite high, but expected to drop in the future. Hydrogen produced from fossil fuels is about 5 times as cheap generally speaking
miko foin
miko foin Hónapja
No expert here, but Hydrogen is expensive to buy? Is it realy more expensive to produce then gasoline? its just 2 electrodes in water, running electricety throug it and Bam,don
TitchyNZ
TitchyNZ Hónapja
Could you combine the two into a single system? Use a fuel cell to extract electrical power from the hydrogen, and then burn it. Obviously this system would be very complicated but this would release more energy from the hydrogen. This could also allow for a testing platform for both technologies before transitioning to the consumer market.
marcossonicracer
in resume: f1 will turn into FE if the 2040 regulations of Brazil for example are approved, disalowing anything to be moved by a ICE when it hits that date (sooner if you are in EU, wich is a core market for F1... we can, as much as it pains me to say, have no races in my home country, but no F1 races in the EU as a whole... no way...)
mcc4m1sh
mcc4m1sh Hónapja
You can make super powerful Hydrogen combustion engines using direct injection H2, O2 and H2O. 3 injectors per cylinder. No intake port/valve required, only exhaust, and you can run it 2 stroke. Has the potential for thousands of HP.
TK KönigsTiger
TK KönigsTiger Hónapja
i don't think that f1 will stop using "normal" engines anytime soon tbh...
Beringer Ergo
Beringer Ergo Hónapja
Hydrogen gas is also not the safest chemical to be working with (there may be a famous blimp disaster about it) and would definitely be a scary situation is a major collision
Roel Claassen
Roel Claassen Hónapja
Is driving on ethanol not also an option?
Pete Christlives
Just the video explanation I wanted, and others likely too. Cheers 😁. Have a good day reader, Jesus loves you and died to save you. You must repent and be saved. Amen
AlexCOD
AlexCOD Hónapja
Fuck nitrogan. oxygen and hydrogen. All i want is natural aspirated V10s
Steen Pedersen
Steen Pedersen Hónapja
I am impressed about your knowledge.
Nebuchadnezzar Quellcris
So if we want hydrogen, no engine sounds
HotCurryKetchup
HotCurryKetchup Hónapja
F1 is dead what’s the point of watching races when you are not sure if you have tinnitus or if it’s the cars
Michal Onufrák
Michal Onufrák Hónapja
we have been working with batteries and electricity for a very long on a large scale. Hydrogen is kinda new to us. I think F1 can put their massive RnD into it to make it even better
T Orrent
T Orrent Hónapja
If you don't like the quiet whine of electrics, do what the Nazis did. They put sirens on the front of their Stukka bombers which were powered by the air as they dove. But instead of a howl, tune the sound to make it a roar.
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